Transcription:
Paola Peralta (00:09):
Welcome to Perk Up, a podcast about workplace culture and benefits brought to you from the team at Employee Benefit News. I'm Paola Peralta, your host for season three. As you all know, we're talking all things parenthood this season, which means diving into the tougher parts of that journey too. For today's episode, I'm sitting down with EBN Senior Editor Lee Hafner, to discuss pregnancy loss and what employers can do to make an emotionally and often physically challenging experience just a little easier. Hey, Lee, welcome to the podcast.
Lee Hafner (00:38):
Thank you very much. I'm really excited to be part of the new season.
Paola Peralta (00:42):
So today we're talking about pregnancy loss, which I think we can all acknowledge is really heavy.
Lee Hafner (00:47):
Yes. So miscarriage is something that affects millions of women every year, as many as 20% of known pregnancies result in a miscarriage, but the number is actually higher, but it is still not typically something talked about in the workplace or publicly and deserves a lot more attention,
Paola Peralta (01:04):
Which is still so surprising. And you connected with the founders of the Worst Girl Gang Ever platform, which can I just say is the perfect name for a platform that supports women who have been going through or are going through such a difficult time.
Lee Hafner (01:17):
Absolutely. I had the privilege of talking with Bex Gunn, who is the mother of four children, and Laura Buckingham, who is the mother of two, but both of whom were inspired to start the worst girl gang ever after their own experiences with miscarriage. They also work with employers to increase awareness and education around these topics.
Paola Peralta (01:36):
And this is obviously a subject that needs to be handled with a lot of care, but like you said, it's an important one for employers to consider if they want to have a good support system in place. So I for one, am really looking forward to learning more about their experience and especially how it shaped the work that they do today.
Lee Hafner (01:52):
It's wonderful to have you both on the show. You both are the hosts of an amazing podcast, Worst Girl Gang Ever. Laura, I'd like to start off with you. Can you tell me a little bit about the personal experience that led you to partner up with Bex and start this podcast?
Bex Gunn (02:13):
So I started trying for a family in 2012 and I ended up having my first son in 2019, but he was actually my eighth pregnancy. So in the years in between, I went through, well, just a pretty rubbish time, lots of loss. And when I had my son in 2019, I felt like I'd spent so much time living the life of someone who was trying for a baby. And I'd made all of these sort of connections with people online around the world where we'd supported each other, but I didn't know where I fit in that community anymore because I now had what everyone was hoping and dreaming for. And then I found Bex on a Facebook group and she was passionate and angry about the state of support. After someone goes through loss, I thought she's someone that feels and thinks the same as me and things do need to change, and maybe she's the person that I can hook up with and we can make these changes and change the way that miscarriage support looks for others going through it.
Lee Hafner (03:37):
And you were working while you were going through many of your experiences, is that right?
Bex Gunn (03:43):
Yeah, so I worked as a nurse on an ward with lots of other women. So I was surrounded by all of these women who were seemingly easily falling pregnant and having families. The support just wasn't there from the perspective of the managers, but also the people that I worked with. The other girls didn't really know how to handle me and what I was going through. It was a tough, lonely old time.
Lee Hafner (04:13):
Bex, you can share your experience.
Laura Buckingham (04:17):
Laura and I have very different experiences in that. At the time of my loss, I had three children already, and just before we went into lockdown, I found out that I was pregnant. I was so fortunate to give birth and have very straightforward pregnancies. So it didn't really occur to me that this time would be any different. So I went off to hospital for my 12 week scan by myself because of Covid. And looking back on it now I realize how naive I was. So I went in for my scan and I was told that my baby didn't have a heartbeat. And I remember at that point the room was really dark and I was lying on this bed, and I remember hearing this sound and being aware of this sound and thinking, what is that? And then realizing it was me and it was like this animal sound that was really instinctive and just a horrible kind of pain.
(05:08):
In a way, it was fortunate that I had the lockdown, but in other ways, in many other ways, it exacerbated my grief because I couldn't, for example, see my mom or any of my friends, I couldn't have that physical contact that personally I really need in order to feel held and begin that healing process. But what I did decide to do was write about my experience. I felt like my grief was perhaps disproportionate to my loss, and I felt that because I couldn't find anything that supported the way I felt, I couldn't find my experience anywhere. And I really felt that I can't be the only woman that feels like this after experiencing miscarriage. So from off the back of that, I started a Facebook support group and I just welcome people to join it and said, come and share your story. I wanted them to have a better network, a better accessibility to support than I had. And essentially that's how Laura and I met through this post that I wrote. And we discovered after our initial conversation, which lasted about an hour having never met each other and that we both had this real common desire to help other people help make things a little bit less dark for other people.
Lee Hafner (06:25):
You guys have started an employer program where you have webinars and you have resources that can help them to bring awareness, heighten the sensitivity within the workplace.
Bex Gunn (06:38):
We've built personal relationships with lots of women and returning to work and navigating the workplace has always been something that crops up in our conversations with them. It's something that they really struggle with, whether that be returning to work after the initial loss or navigating challenges like other colleagues being pregnant or announcements of pregnancies and baby showers and births and things like that. And we spend so much time at work, like a large proportion of our life is in the workplace. So to be struggling with these kinds of things for so much of your day is exhausting. And we decided that we would head into workplaces and we would just give some insight. Really, we know that talking about these things opens up the dialogue and makes it less of a taboo, less of a topic that's shrouded with this shame and secrecy. And we've had some wonderful feedback from companies where conversations have been had between colleagues who have been through similar experiences and didn't know that they had similar experiences to their colleagues and also from other people from middle-aged men who historically don't really talk about these things.
Laura Buckingham (08:01):
Something that we often say is that you can't understand these experiences from an emotional perspective unless you've been through them yourself. But from an educational point of view, we can learn how to support one another. And if we can, then I believe it's our responsibility to do that. So if we can make our places of work safe spaces, then we can start to relax within those boundary timeframes that have been so clearly laid out for us, and we can then be more effective at work and we can start to either reinvent who we are or get back to who we were certainly in the workplace.
Lee Hafner (08:39):
Laura, can you talk to me a little bit about the toolkit that employers need to create in order to offer an overall ability to support their people that are dealing with this, whether that be the women who go through it or their partners?
Bex Gunn (08:57):
Firstly, the legwork needs to be done beforehand. So people need to know that this is a company that's going to support people going through this type of loss, and that's done by it being spoken about. Another aspect of it is having the supportive people within the organization. So having the person that people know that they can go to doesn't necessarily have to be like their line manager or someone in hr, just a safe person within that organization. There are all sorts of things to consider when someone is returning to work, but also when they're off, when they're off and they're in that initial grief period, they've got so much going on within their lives, within their head that they don't need to be worrying about work. So to have a nice easy, transparent plan in place so they know what is expected of them. For example, what days are they going to be contacted? Will it be by phone or by email? Who will be ringing them just so that it gives them a heads up and there's one less thing to be anxious and stressed about. And then when they do return to work, can it be a phased return? We're all different, and that's the most important thing is that it has to be personalized, but in order for it to be personalized, there has to be a lot of communication. Communication is key in all of it really.
Paola Peralta (10:22):
And we'll be right back with Lauren Beck's story after this brief ad. Welcome back. So we just got done hearing Beck's stories and it's been amazing to witness their courage in sharing these experiences that must still be really fresh and hard to talk about. They also started talking about some of the actionable things employers can do to support people going through miscarriage in the workplace. And I'm sure there's still so much more that we'll hear about in just a minute.
Lee Hafner (10:49):
Yes, pregnancy loss is something that can impact any workplace because like they said, you also have to think about the partners of the women who experience miscarriage as well as the women themselves.
Paola Peralta (11:01):
And from what I'm hearing, most of these actions seem to center around communication and awareness,
Lee Hafner (11:06):
Right? Which is something employers can seek help for as well as form a support network within their organization. It's very important to remember that it is better to do something, even if it takes a little while to get things worked out than to do nothing.
Paola Peralta (11:20):
And on top of their podcast and working directly with employers, which is very important work. The Worst Girl Gang ever also has an online support system just for women who have suffered pregnancy loss, right?
Lee Hafner (11:31):
Yes. So one of the things they talk about in just a minute is that women going through this kind of loss needs support from every angle, but especially from other women who can directly relate to what they're going through. So be, and Laura have an amazing support network through their warriorship member program, and they've also published a book and have a blog and other resources available on their website.
Paola Peralta (11:53):
Well, let's dive back in and see what kind of additional support employers can offer as well as maybe some outside options for women that aren't in the workplace.
Lee Hafner (12:02):
Bex, can you talk to me about the membership that's available through Worst Girl Gang ever? You've given women a very safe place and also that essential peer-to-peer support.
Laura Buckingham (12:14):
Like Laura was saying a moment ago, what works for someone may not work for someone else. So when we created our membership, we added everything in the hope that people would join the platform and dip in and out. What we wanted to do was create this huge emotional toolbox for women following their loss. And we've got loads and loads of information on grief and trying to conceive after loss and pregnancy after loss. And we gathered help from loads of different experts within their fields to secure these modules that are run by experts, but within that platform. And then on top of that, we do monthly things like monthly creative therapies. It's a really safe place to explore the way you feel with other people who understand it and won't try and minimize your grief in any way. What we want to do is give people loads and loads of information and tools to aid their recovery in one a recovery center. That's what we like to think of our membership as is a sort of recovery center. You can find us on our website's www.theworstgirlgangever.co.uk, and you can access our membership through there. But really our hope is that we can reach as many people and just give people a little beacon of light in their dark times. And so if you're going through this, just reach out and allow yourself to be supported.
Paola Peralta (13:44):
Wow. I mean, Becks and Laura really are just two amazing people making such a huge difference in the lives of the women that they connect with through their work, and then they meet every day. I mean, it was just great insight and advice. I'm really, really, really in awe.
Lee Hafner (13:58):
Yeah, they are truly an amazing resource of support and hope. And it's also, I think, such an important point that they make that employers who offer support, guidance, resources within their workplace, they not only help women and their partners who are experiencing this presently, but anybody who's ever gone through this type of loss in this type of hardship. So the level of support here is truly immeasurable,
Paola Peralta (14:26):
And I just could not agree more. I mean, I think that it is something that all women could benefit from regardless of where they are in their family building journey. Well, that wraps up our second episode of Perk Up. I'm Paola Peralta, and thanks again to Lee Hafner at EBN as well as Bex Gunn and Laura Buckingham from the Worst Girl Gang Ever. We'll be back in two weeks with a brand new episode. This episode is produced by Employee Benefit News. Rate us and review us wherever you get your podcast and check out more content from the EBN team www.benefitnews.com.