Wellbeing 360 - Crafting a Culture of Health, Harmony, and Inclusion

Explore how implementing comprehensive wellness programs that address physical, mental, social, financial, and community engagement can transform your organization. This panel will highlight the significance of fostering a positive workplace culture where Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) are crucial to creating a thriving and collaborative environment. What you'll learn Strategies for developing and integrating wellness programs that support all aspects of employee wellbeing How a positive workplace culture contributes to a harmonious and productive environment The role of inclusive leadership in advancing DEI initiatives and the importance of middle management buy-in for their success How digital wellness platforms offer convenient resources for employees' well-being and drive increased engagement and organizational success Join us to gain insights on how adopting inclusive practices and reducing bias can enhance your company's reputation and foster a more engaged and resilient workforce.

Transcription:

Cerrina Jensen (00:09):

Hey everybody. Good morning. My name is Cerrina Jensen and I'm so happy to be here with all of you fine professional leaders. Thanks for taking time out of your lives to come to this event and get powered up with knowledge and insights. I'm feeling a lot more knowledgeable even after just what we've seen so far. We'll go ahead and just get started. I'd like to introduce everybody else that our panelists here. We are here for the session called Wellbeing 360, Crafting a Culture of Health, Harmony and Inclusion. So if that's not your intended session, feel free to leave the room. We won't make fun of you or anything like that. Just kidding. Don't leave. You're in the right place. You're where you're supposed to be. I'm a Benefits Advisor. I work with employers that have anywhere from two to three employees all the way up to thousands of employees. I'm based in the Sacramento area. I'm originally from San Francisco, and I'm really happy to be here with all of you as well as our panelists. You guys want to just go down the line?

Peter Dunn (01:23):

Sure. I'm Peter Dunn. I'm the CEO of Your Money Line. We're a financial coaching and software company based out of Indianapolis, Indiana. We help several hundred thousand employees through their employers with their financial lives, and it is the most gratifying purpose-driven job a person can possibly have, and I'm in love with my career. Thank you.

Morganne B. Francois (01:47):

Hello everyone. My name is Morganne Francois and I am also from Indianapolis, Indiana. Who knew driving from or flying from the Midwest to Cali. I'm with another nap town person, so nice. I'm also a Benefits Manager for Brickyard Healthcare . We're a long-term healthcare company, so residents who need additional assistance outside of maybe a short accident or maybe they just have no one to care for them and now they're a part of our family. We have over 2,500 employees located in the city and state of Indianapolis, Indiana, and from the north to the south, and a sister city in Salute, which is in Atlanta, Georgia. So I am pretty much a babysitter for adults and their benefits and making sure that they do the right thing. So thank you.

Karen Clark (02:33):

Hi everyone. Good morning. My name is Karen Clark. I'm the Benefits and Wellness Manager at Confie. We are the largest personal lines distributor and in my role I really handle all things, benefits and wellness, our employee recognition program and corporate social responsibility.

Cerrina Jensen (02:51):

Thanks everybody. So we've got some questions here prepared and then a little bit into the session. We'll go ahead and open up to you as well if you have some questions of your own that you'd like to ask the panel. And I have really enjoyed the focus on Whole Person health and wellbeing at this event as a benefits advisor. One of the things that I say in almost every open enrollment that I conduct all throughout the year is that there is nothing more important to any of us than our health and wellbeing and that of our families. And if you don't know that, you get, you're blissfully ignorant of that reality. But a lot of us do know that from our experiences. When you are sick, when one of your kids is sick, your spouse, your parent, your sibling, whatever, everything else stops navigating. I loved that AI session this morning because yeah, navigating the American healthcare system can be challenging even for somebody like myself who actually does this for a living.

(04:00):

I changed my insurance a few months ago and trying to figure out how to go get a mammogram and where to get a mammogram and have it be covered by my new plan was a nightmare, and it was extremely illuminating to me to have that experience that I'm trying to help my clients not have. So a lot of us have experienced things like that. And so the first question for the panel, and this is to everyone and feel free to go in whatever order you guys is, what does a 360 approach to wellbeing look like in an organization and how can it be effectively implemented? Who would like to go first?

Morganne B. Francois (04:38):

I can start. I think the first thing you have to do is remember is that the employee is not just an ID number. They're a human being. They are a mother, they're a father, they're a son, they're a sister, they're an aunt and uncle, all the names of a family. They're not just your employees. So you have to look at them outside of that. You have to take into accountability their mental and make sure that you're feeding that you have to make sure you're counting into their career and you're feeding that as well. You have to look into their financial side of it. Not everyone at their companies make six figures. Some are actually struggling at minimum wage trying to feed their families. So you have to feed into that as well. So I think with the 360 approach, you have to look at the employee as a whole and not just one side. And I think that's very important for all leaders to do

Karen Clark (05:25):

Good. I completely agree with Morganne and Cerrina. I feel like 360 wellbeing really means whole person care. When I think of wellness, I kind of envision it like a pie chart. It has physical, mental, financial, social components, and depending on your organization that could even have more slices to it. But it's really that full scope approach. And I think in order to implement effectively, you really need to first listen to your employees. I could roll out a wellness program that I think is fantastic, but it may not be the best for my employee population. So I think first you need to see what their needs are and then be prepared to act on the information you learn. So if you're not prepared to then act upon what you learn from your employee population, I would pause in making that request to hear from them because if they feel like it falls on deaf ears, then it'll be counterintuitive.

Peter Dunn (06:23):

For me, it's about behavior. Then when you think about wellness, I immediately think about behavior. It's whether it's mental wellness or physical wellness or financial wellness, you're getting someone to behave like they desire to be. So if you think about a person might feel one way about nutrition, I feel like I want to make good food choices, but when you think about food, you think about it as pleasure as opposed to satisfaction, which is a digression. And then you get to how do I behave with food? Well, when I go to the airport after this panel today, I guess we'll see, right? I guess we'll see whether the chicken Caesar sauce on Side works or whether it's burger again. And so for me, it's aligning, thinking, feeling, behaving in all aspects of life, whether it's nutrition, finance, faith, relationships, and mental health.

Cerrina Jensen (07:23):

Awesome answers so far. Thanks you guys. So Karen, let's talk a little bit about DEIB and some of the challenges that you've faced in deploying DEI within your organization, particularly in the current environment where we're starting to see even some backlash about DEI, right? We see organizations that are stepping away from DEI, which I really personally feel is very unfortunate. I think DEI to some misguided perceptions is getting a bad rap, so to speak, right? I don't personally want to think of DEI as affirmative action 2.0. That's not what it is at all. But when we talk about whole person health and wellbeing, we want to, as our panelists are emphasizing, we want to look at every individual as an entire person with all of their experiences, hangups, preferences, thoughts, ideas and everything. So Karen, let's just talk about some of the challenges that you faced and what do you think organizations should focus on to ensure success and buy-in particularly in this kind of conflicted environment that we're

Karen Clark (08:47):

Say In my opinion, the biggest challenge with DEI is the misconception that it is for or in benefit of just a particular group of people. I think that idea really builds resistance when DEI at its core is about making sure everyone within an organization feels valued, feels respected, feels heard, and not just on the team, but an important part of it. So I feel like in order to overcome that, you absolutely need leadership support. You need them to really model the values that you are bringing to your organization. I think that transparency and open dialogue are critical. I think that even just taking the time to educate your population really helps to dispel some of those myths that go along with DEI. And in terms of your DEI initiatives or efforts, I feel like it's really important to start small. I think that consistency is what's most important because if you bite off more than you can chew, employees will also see that this kind of seemed like a fad. It doesn't really seem lasting or truly important. So I think small, steady progress is what's most important and should be the focal point, and then you can build from that when you have consistency.

Cerrina Jensen (10:05):

That's a perfect segue to a question that I've got for Morganne. Along those lines, talk to us just a little bit, if you will, about what role leadership plays in fostering that culture of health and inclusion, and how can leaders including mid-level leadership model these values?

Morganne B. Francois (10:28):

I always stand up on my soapbox when it comes to a question like this because it starts at the top. You know what I mean? It starts with the leader. So if the leader isn't implementing the same mission statement for the company, the person underneath them isn't going to do it. And then that middle level supervisor isn't going to do it. And now you're dealing with the supervisors who are with the employees who they deal with on a daily basis and they're not implementing it. So if the leader isn't standing behind and being a wellness champion or being a financial champion and trying to listen to the employee as a whole and be transparent and communicate the way that they're supposed to, and I see this all the time in my company personally, it doesn't work. You have leaders who aren't a part of the DEI or wanting to have that conversation or be open or be transparent.

(11:17):

They're not caring about the employee who is a single mom who has three kids and is trying to make ends meet, who is trying to also get to work at the same time and get her kids to school at the same time and still be there for both parts. And if you don't have a leader who is compassionate, who understands that and understands the culture of their company, which is also very important, you can't be a leader and only see one side of an employee. You have to see you. They have to see him, they have to see her in the back. They have to see everyone who involves and is a part of that company. And I think the only way to do that, again, it just goes back to it starts at the top. You have to funnel it all the way down, have those trainings, have those open conversations with your supervisors so that they too understand where you're coming from as a leader. If you don't talk to them, they don't know they're just going to go off and do whatever the hell they want to do at the end of the day. So I think that's most important.

Cerrina Jensen (12:12):

I think that's such an excellent point. I mean, I think back over the course of my own career and some of the leaders that I've worked for, but it's one thing, it kind of reminds me of your parents do, as I say, not as I do. And so much we see where leaders say, oh, we're about this and we believe in that and this is our mission and our values and all of those things, but they don't actually act it out. And so that makes people feel like that's very inconsistent mixed messaging and feels very inauthentic. So I think you're right about that. Piggyback question on that. What are some of the things that we might be able to do when we see some of those red flags? What are some strategies for dealing with that?

Morganne B. Francois (13:16):

Well, I'm blunt. So when I see something like that happening, first of all, I've never worked at a company where the president and the CEO is so available. I've always had employees who are like, well, I'm going to call the president. You don't have his number, you can't reach him. You're not going to be able to. Well, at the company I'm at now, oh, they can't. And they will drive up to where we're at and they will knock on the door and be like, Hey, Wesley. And I'm like, oh my God, they just came up here.

(13:42):

Crazy people. So I feel as though you have to have that conversation. And Cerrina, I think that's where it starts too, that open conversation, if the leaders aren't having that talk with their supervisors to say, this is what needs to be done, or Hey, I'm seeing something going on at your facility and your department that I think we need to touch base on. You try to burn the fire out before it becomes a huge flame, or wait backwards, take the flame out before the fire starts, is what I'm trying to say. And so you have to have that conversation. And I think that's what we're doing in my company now. We're having a lot of issues. Majority of my company is probably 75% African-American is probably 70% women. And some people don't know how to interact with those individuals. And so I'm seeing it and you're having to have those conversations with your regionals, hrs if you have 'em with your HR staff, with the VP of HR where it starts with their leaders and you have those open conversations. And sometimes it does get sticky, sometimes it does get uncomfortable, but if it's not uncomfortable, that means it's not working because you have to get those topics out there and you have to address it. If not, like you said, we're just living in a world of ignorance. If we don't,

Cerrina Jensen (14:52):

Oh, I love that. That's why we get along so well, because I personally, and I had to train my husband to play along on this, but I personally would much rather have an awkward conversation than unspoken bitterness because that gets toxic real fast, both in our personal and in our professional lives. So that's just such great insight. Let's pivot a little bit, and Pete, let's talk a little bit about why do you think it's so important to address physical, mental, emotional, and financial wellbeing in the workplace? And how do you think leadership and decision teams should think about ROI when it comes to these initiatives? And before you answer, I'm just going to get real brave here and go a little off script and share with you. I gave a talk a few years ago that took every ounce of courage that I had because I formerly had an unhealthy relationship with money.

(15:53):

I don't want to say I was bad with money or I didn't know how to handle it or anything like that. I had an unhealthy relationship with money. And it goes back to childhood and I mean everything goes back to childhood, but so what you guys do at your company I think is so beautiful because there's a lot of us. And the reason that I brought that up is so many people came up to me afterward very emotional, and they were so thankful that I was willing to get on a stage in a room full of people and kind of give that peek behind the curtain. Because if you do or if you have had an unhealthy relationship with money, it doesn't mean you're dumb. It doesn't mean you're stupid, it doesn't mean anything like that. It just means that you have an unhealthy relationship and you can fix it. And that's kind of part of what your company does. So in case if you forgot the question after that big soapbox moment, why is it so important to address all of these different components and how should leadership teams approach it?

Peter Dunn (17:04):

Well, I think the spirit of wellness is you'd simply, if you're going to say you care about it, you can't shame beginnings. So you can't shame when you share of yourself and say, this relationship's not going the way I want. I'm saying this to maybe help others, but I'm saying it out loud. So I believe that I want to change. So first off, good for you for going public with that. Not once but twice. I will give the quantitative answer to this in a moment, but when I think about caring for a person's whole person, I think about my dad's plumbing company that our family had when I was growing up from time to time, we'd get a phone call at our house, do you remember house phones? Those were cute around nine 30 when we're watching the Cosby Show or something. And it'd be the police or a concerned citizen that saw the truck somewhere and someone was either getting arrested or getting a DUI or it was something that it's easy to assign shame or blame to the situation.

(18:06):

And I just remember my dad in a very 1980s spirit saying to me, he's a very personal responsibility sort of fellow. However, he also said, it may not be my fault that I'm going to bail Rick out of jail right now, but it is my problem. And I think that again really gets to the bottom of why should a company care about mental health? Why should they care about financial health? Let's get to the quantitative nature of this. Turnover is expensive. It is so expensive, and it's for the people that are like, is it? I'm like, then you don't understand because it is wildly expensive. And if it isn't your revenue producing verticals of your business, it can throw your entire business plan off. You also get this idea of productivity loss. I hate to do this. I met you all 12 minutes ago, but I want you to think about the worst moment of your financial life real quick.

(18:59):

Yeah, guy in white pants after labor day just made you think about the worst moment in your financial life. I'm an endearing mid westerner. Think about it for a second. How can you work? How can you focus on spreadsheets and zoom meetings and all of these other you can't. You're just solvent. And then the third one is really for legacy businesses. And when I talk about legacy businesses, I talk about businesses that have been around for decades, maybe a century. I'm just curious, anyone's business been in business for a century in this room or close to a century? Yeah, okay, A couple here and there. Those businesses are able to exist because there's a natural employment cycle. People come into the business, they have a fruitful career and they're able to retire. That is a very healthy cycle. If you don't have people retiring from your business, then you have top heavy labor costs that hurt your business.

(19:55):

So the practicality of financial wellness is let's improve that natural employment cycle so we can continue to exist so we don't have the most expensive talent who're the most expensive to ensure and give benefits to bottleneck our business at the top end. And before I am quiet for a moment, I would also like to point out the nuance of that is not age discrimination. It is that a person wants to retire and you've set up a system that allows that as opposed to you didn't set up a system that allows that, and now you have to force them out with all sorts of nuanced ways of saying it because you didn't do proper planning.

Cerrina Jensen (20:38):

Thank you. So insightful. And yeah, so that was my own personal journey on that walk was about five years ago now, and it started with forgiving myself. That was step number one. And that applies to any struggle that anybody is dealing with at any time in life is first thing is just give yourself permission to forgive yourself. The second step that I took was I counted up the credit cards and what I was paying every month in interest alone, and that was the beginning of a really cool journey of fixing my relationship with money because that reality was highly illuminating and very expensive. Go ahead.

Peter Dunn (21:34):

Yeah, just real quick. I was going to say whether it's financial or health or weight loss or whatever, what you've just described as a process of sacrifice that then turns into self-control. And that's where programming matters because it's one thing for you to count up the credit cards and give it a 30 day effort, but it's that second month and then the third month and all of a sudden it's who you are. It's not a new thing, it's who you are. And it's that having someone become that new quality about themselves that is so valuable within wellness.

Cerrina Jensen (22:06):

Well, yeah. And you create a domino effect and your are healing. And that's why I got up on that stage and shared that I didn't know what I was going to talk about in that presentation and I had to pray about it over some time, and that is what the universe told me I was going to talk about. And I was like, are you sure? I really don't want to do that. But it worked out. And then you help other people on their healing journeys for whatever, like you said. I mean, we all have those things that we struggle with. So yeah, that's wonderful insight. Morganne, we touched on this already, but go a little deeper with what are some of the ways that organizations can foster a culture where individuals feel valued, respected, and appreciated?

Morganne B. Francois (22:56):

Again, my soapbox

(22:59):

For one, I think what companies, and this is the first thing that just came to mind, is I think we've all seen the memes and the tiktoks where the employees are like, we're sick and tired of pizza parties. We don't want a bloody pizza party no more. We don't want company swag. Yay. Great. I have things to say Brickyard, but I can't wear that everywhere. Stop it. So I think the first thing is a recognition program. I think Karen touched on this as well. We come and we show up every single day to work. We bust our asses every single day when we come to work. So we need some type of, we get paid for it sometimes in a way that we think we should, but reward us some other way. Some other type of recognition program is amazing if you just say, Hey, thank you so much for doing your job.

(23:44):

I appreciate you. Thank you. I went out and I got a whole bunch of stuff from Dick's because I knew one of the girls who I was doing a recognition for was a huge athlete and just her getting some Nike apparel and something that was completely different from Brickyard swag, she was like, oh my God, thank you. I needed some new tennis shoes in order for me to do the step up challenge that I have going on. I'm like, yeah, sure, you got it, girl. So recognition programs are amazing. Again, being transparent with the employee. I love a town hall. I know some CEOs don't like to be completely transparent and tell their employees everything that's going on, we don't really need to know anyway. But I think having that open communication with your employee is very important, so that way they know what's going on with the company, they know where you're coming from and they know what they're expected of themselves.

(24:33):

If you bring an employee in and they don't know, they're just going to come to work and just kind of shift along and then you're not getting that return of investment from that employee who's doing their job, who's doing what they're supposed to do. And I think also, again, going back to open communication newsletters are great. Just letting them know what's going on, what's happening with the company, even if it's just something small. Trust is an important factor. If you are open and transparent, you're building that trust with the employee right there, so that way they know that they can trust you and they're seeing that you're seeing them as an individual and not employee ID number 9 0 1 2 3 4 5. You're seeing me as Morganne Francois who is a little goofy, a little blunt, who is a little bit sometimes wonky sometimes, but thank you for acknowledging me and who I am and my work. So I think I can keep going, but I think those are the most important things that they need to do to try to implement first.

Cerrina Jensen (25:23):

I love that. I love that. So continuing along those lines, Karen, let's talk about how organizations can keep their wellbeing initiatives dynamic and adaptable to the changing needs of their workforce, particularly in a post pandemic environment.

Karen Clark (25:44):

I think the first thing to recognize, understand and accept is that employee needs will absolutely change. What your employees like and appreciate now is different than five years ago pre pandemic, and it's going to be different five years into the future. So I think continuous evaluation to make sure that programs stay relevant and impactful is important. And in terms of the pandemic, I think that really accelerated the need for mental health support. I think it also opened the door to remote working options as well as employee's desire for just having flexibility in general. So I think that in light of the pandemic wellness was something that was viewed as perhaps something nice to have, but it shifted to being something absolutely essential. And just again, listening to your employees and knowing that what they want now will definitely change. And you have to be adaptable.

Peter Dunn (26:48):

Karen, I think about the financial inclusivity of remote work. They don't have to have transportation to work or you don't have to have an entire wardrobe and you just need shirts, right? I think it really ties into DIB when you think about that.

Karen Clark (27:09):

Absolutely.

Cerrina Jensen (27:10):

I love that. Am I the only one who's ever showed up to a Zoom meeting with only the front of my hair done in the back looking like last night

Peter Dunn (27:19):

All the time for me.

Cerrina Jensen (27:23):

Okay. Just a quick time check. We were asked to open it up to your questions at about this point, so no pressure. If there's none, it's okay, but let's make this a little bit inclusive and dynamic. Anybody want to get in on this conversation? Yes, sir. Mic's coming.

Audience Member 1 (27:42):

Okay, thank you. So I really like what you mentioned about Covid and how things change in terms of focusing on the employee experience, and it'll be interesting to hear more how you personally feel Covid made you focus more like are there certain incidents or things that made you realize, oh wow, we really need to focus on mental health and how the world changed in your view?

Karen Clark (28:07):

I'll kick it off. I don't know if anyone else wants to build on it. I think for me, the pandemic really sparked a desire for more personal balance. As much as I absolutely love working from home, I feel like it really blurred the lines and I was working constantly. I just didn't know when to shut it off, and I really did that to myself. No one was saying, Hey, it's nine o'clock at night, an email came in, we're expecting you to respond. No one was doing that. It was just so easy to keep going. So I feel like I had to just set boundaries for myself, and that was something that happened in the pandemic, and then that kind of just morphed into a desire to have a more holistic wellness program for my employees because if I'm feeling that in one way, they certainly are as well. So we just built upon our mental health programs and initiatives that were launched, which clearly was a big topic throughout the pandemic and even now. So just being more conscious to have a more well-rounded program was my focus from the pandemic.

Peter Dunn (29:13):

I think for us, we learned the difference between financial comfort and financial stability. So the difference would be you've got a really good income and it allows you to do a lot of neat things. That's comfort stability is you take that good income and you create enough structure so that when things aren't so great, you're still okay. I write a column in USA today, a finance column in April of 2020. I got an email from a reader that said, I make $200,000 a year, $75,000 base salary. I'm in the travel industry in April of 2020. So she said, I'm not going to make $125,000 that I've made for the last 10 years. She'd made $2 million over the last decade. That's the difference between comfort and stability. And it was light bulb for our organization going, wait a second, we're trying to help people have stability here. And it was a game changer from a cultural perspective of what covid brought to us.

Cerrina Jensen (30:29):

Oh boy. I am taking my own personal notes here. That is such incredibly helpful way to think about it and frame it. And one of the things that I talk about when I have these kinds of conversations is everybody's in one of three buckets. Whether you're an individual, a family, or an organization, you're either getting ahead, you're keeping up or you're falling behind, right? Everybody obviously wants to be getting ahead all of the time, but because of circumstances that are sometimes out of our control, that's not always the case. So creating that stability as opposed to comfort is definitely something I'm going to take home and make part of my own personal journey. Any other questions in the room?

Audience Member 2 (31:16):

Yeah, I believe it was Karen who said, and I thought this was really insightful, that when we think about DEI, it's not just about making sure or it is about making sure that every person in an organization feels valued, not just to the benefit of a single individual or group. And you mentioned needing to educate the population about what goes along with DE. I was just curious if you had any thoughts, recommendations, strategies or tactics on how to go about that education?

Karen Clark (31:47):

Absolutely. I think it can start with if your company doesn't have a mission statement on what they believe DEI is or means to them, I think that's a good starting point. I kind of hesitate to suggest any broad training programs, but to have it be optional, that way it doesn't feel forced, but the message is out there and employees can hear from even perhaps a facilitator that isn't a part of your company to share and further the messages of what DEI means. So it doesn't sound exclusively like, Hey, this is what we think and that's all. But you have experts in the field who can kind of further the message and share that it's really about everybody has been helpful for us.

Cerrina Jensen (32:37):

Great questions guys. Thanks for that.

Audience Member 3 (32:41):

This question is for anyone. You all mentioned elements of top down, like modeling the behavior, setting clear policy, clear behavior parameters, but I'm wondering about from the bottom up, are there any things that you are doing or wish you could do to create more organic? If I don't necessarily trust the top, but I might trust the bottom a little bit more. And how are you getting that from understanding more inclusion around wellbeing support if people are fearful or understanding different aspects of financial or social or physical health?

Morganne B. Francois (33:19):

I can start with this one. I think for me personally with that question, if I didn't have the support group in my company, my team members who are a part of HR with me, I don't know if I'd still be with the company because like you said, it's trust. It's having to have that security with the leaders and not saying, my leaders are bad, please Lord, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just saying that your coworkers are your work wives and your work husbands and they're your support. And so if I don't feel comfortable, for example, me and my vp, we go butt heads sometimes because I want to implement different policies and he's like, no, Morganne, we're going to come at that later. Well, why not? Let's do it now. And we butt heads. And sometimes that's frustrating because I feel like I'm not being heard and I'm at the bottom.

(34:06):

I don't consider myself as a top, even though I'm a manager. I'm an employee just like everybody else. So if I don't have that comfort level with my supervisor, I know that at least I have internal support groups that I can go to and work with. I know I can call my HR person next to me and my team member and say, Hey, I'm having an issue right now. How can I handle it? I can also have the comfort level of maybe going to a mid-level supervisor who I do have a little bit more flexibility and personal relationships with to where it's not so tight, they're not my VP who's right over me. So I can have that open conversation and just knock on the door and closed mouths don't get fed. So if you don't say anything, you're not going to know an answer.

(34:43):

You're not going to get the assistance that you need. So I'm always an advocate for if you have a question, if you need something and you don't know where you need to go, maybe don't go to the president, don't go to the vp, come to your HR people. We're the ones who are resourcing the humans anyway, so come to us. But try to have that support group within the company that you can go to and talk to and maybe say, Hey, do you have time? Just so I have a quick question. I know this probably doesn't even pertain to your department, but I have a question. I'm wondering if you can help me about this. I think it's important to have those groups that you fill within your company that you can go to and maybe that mid-level supervisor has the ear of someone above them and say, Hey, I had a chat with Morganne yesterday and she mentioned and brought this up to me. What do you think about it? And that creates that open conversation and if you can keep going and going forward from that.

Peter Dunn (35:33):

I have an obnoxious statement to begin with, but it's functional as a CEO and that's the obnoxious statement. But as a CEO hearing Morganne and Karen's thoughts on and how important it's, I'm just running through, I'm like, okay, do I do that? Do A lot of times A CEO really wants to do the best thing. It's just sometimes they're not so good at it and they're working on it. So that's one element of this. So that's just like extend the leaders a little bit grace too. The second thing is my love hate relationship with surveys and feedback. So as a senior leader, we send out benefits surveys and culture surveys and wellness surveys, and I'm so excited we send them and then I start reading through 'em and then I hate that we sent them and then I calm down and then I'm so glad we sent them because we can't fix the problems unless we know about the problems. And so for me, the bottoms up is just calm down and listen to the people a little bit. And don't start with, I'm going to disprove this comment. I have to actually remind myself there, especially when it stinks. My goal is not to disprove this, it's try to find the truth in it and then work backwards from there.

Karen Clark (36:43):

I just want to add that there's definitely a lot of emphasis on top-down and having the executive buy-in, which I do believe is critical, but I think kind of a secret gateway is really just your day-to-day managers. That's really who you're interacting more with. Of course, when your CEO or your head of HR puts out a message, sounds great, you do hope they believe it, but it does sound lofty to a degree. And I know many people, as long as you have a good working relationship with your manager, if they suggest something to you, if they express care, you'll probably care a little bit more too. So I feel like getting more manager support on board is really a key element in that.

Cerrina Jensen (37:25):

Yeah, I really like everything that you guys just said, and I think it's also really important, and I really appreciate the question because you're right. I mean there's that grassroots element that you really do need and you need a sense of community in the workplace and a sense of trust. And if you don't feel like you have, my husband, he's, he's working in a new environment and the CEO of the company, he comes home and tells me, actually stops by in his office every day for a few minutes just to check in. And he's totally blown away by that. He came from the construction world and is now in the insurance and benefits world, which is so cool for me because now we speak the same language, but it's had such a positive impact on him. But if you don't have a CEO who's able to do that for whatever reason, having that sense of community amongst your peers and having an honest environment where you encourage people, and we really struggle with this at our organization because some of our folks are kind of shy and they don't want to give negative feedback for whatever reason.

(38:39):

But I always say, don't call it constructive criticism. Call it constructive feedback because criticism creates a reflexive response like, oh, I'm about to be criticized. But if you share with somebody and come from a perspective of love and caring for your coworker or even your boss or your executive leadership, Hey, I have some constructive feedback for you that might make you a better CEO, it dispels some of that negative reflexive, like, I'm going to try to disprove your point and I'm actually going to listen and try to glean some wisdom and insight out of that. I think we're about at time. Do any of you guys want to close out with any final comments or anybody want to go rogue and ask one more question? Once, twice, three times? Okay. Well, thanks. We hope you guys enjoyed this session and we appreciate you all.